What are drum triggers?

[atelophobia]

Title pretty much says it all. I don't play drums, but I was just curious as to what these are.

[GuitarGod1036]

Drum triggers are piezo transducers (piezo....pronounced pee'-ay-zoh, not pie'-zoh...in Latin you pretty much pronounce every letter....is Latin for "pressure") that react to the pressure of the vibration of the drum heads. The electronic impulse from the piezo is sent to a drum module or "brain" and "triggers" the samples within the module.

[hippy]

instead of microphones when you hit a drum the trigger is set and makes a record sound sort of

[Michael]

Drum Triggers are little pieces of sh*t that turn a B-E-A-utiful drumkit into a worthless piece of crap.

[Aram Feriants]

If you listen to Dream Theater's Images and Words I belive Mike Portnoy used triggerd drums through out the album.

[atelophobia]

Hm...thanks for the help so far, although I'm still not quite sure I understand it. Are they things that go on top of the drum heads or something? Also, when I listen to I&W, compared to other DT albums, I really don't hear much of a difference, but that's just me. When you use triggers, do you still play the drums? I think I've read stuff where it said you can either record the drums by playing them or using triggers. Maybe I'm just confused though, heh.

[phraser]

Hm...thanks for the help so far, although I'm still not quite sure I understand it. Are they things that go on top of the drum heads or something? Also, when I listen to I&W, compared to other DT albums, I really don't hear much of a difference, but that's just me. When you use triggers, do you still play the drums? I think I've read stuff where it said you can either record the drums by playing them or using triggers. Maybe I'm just confused though, heh.


The trigger on the drum usually goes to a drum module of some sort. For instance if you are playing live and the bass drum is just not a big enough sound you can put a trigger on it and hook it up to a module and choose a sound. Essentially your turn your acoustic drum into an electric one. You have to get good triggers though the cheap ones will trigger when you hit anything.

[Doyle]

For Images and Words, listen to the snare drum, thats the triggered one. Listen to how it sounds like a gun shot which sounds exactly precise every time with no dynamic to it. It's like hitting a keyboard note that is set for 'snare drum'.

Used alot for preciseness in fast playing (Dimmu's old stuff), and clarity.


EDIT: Oh ya, and 1980-1989......

[sam777]

1980-1989 yeah, the triggered drum sound is typical of the 80s!

[Michael]

If you listen to Dream Theater's Images and Words I belive Mike Portnoy used triggerd drums through out the album.
Exactly. :D

[Hammer Bart]

Drum Triggers are little pieces of sh*t that turn a B-E-A-utiful drumkit into a worthless piece of crap.

Isn't that like saying "Pickups turn a great guitar into a worthless piece of crap"?
If you put the triggers on a worthless piece of crap drumkit to trigger drum sounds recorded with a B-E-A-utiful drumkit, it would be quite an improvement. Sure, you could use keyboard like drum sounds that are complete shit (it has been done :D ), but if you use good drum samples (with a nice sound and a variety in dynamics) then I don't see any problem. It's not easy to get good sounding drums with a normal setup either. You would need a good (expensive) drumkit, lots of expensive mics, a good (expensive) studio and good engineering. And even then, there is always the problem of getting bass drum on the snare mic, snare on the overhead mic, china on all mics etc etc which all has to be edited out. You don't have to worry about that with triggered drums. I have to admit I don't have experience with triggered drums, but I don't think it's crap by definition. There are very good drumsamples available (drumkit from hell comes to mind).

[Michael]

I don't agree. I think a crappy drumkit, recorded with crappy microphones can sound better then a triggered kit. I simply DON'T like the sound of triggered drumkits.

But that's just my opinion, nothing serious. :wink:

[deadringer]

I don't like triggered drums generally, but a triggered kick can be an absolute life saver if you you're doing the sound for a band and the drum kit is a pita. I used to carry an Alesis module and a single trigger for just that occasion. Nothing I'd ever do in the studio but live it can be tough to tell the difference! :D

You'd be surprised how many touring bands you've seen have at least something on the kit triggered. Although post 1991, it's hard to find a triggered snare.

The one's I've used look kind of like this

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040302080535004005062096174349/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/444893/

[Michael]

BTW.

The comparison between guitars and pickups and drums and triggers isn't really realsitic, IMO.

A guitarpickup has a certain character to it, picking up vibrations from wood and strings and so forth, while a trigger has NO character.

The drumkit from hell samples are great, but the problem with triggering is that you can only use 1 sample per instrument. If you would program a drumgroove in a sequencer that wouldn't be a problem, because you can program different samples per beat, with lots of different velocities. With realtime triggering you can only use 1 sample with different velocities, and that's lethal to good dynamics, IMO.

[Michael]

I don't like triggered drums generally, but a triggered kick can be an absolute life saver if you you're doing the sound for a band and the drum kit is a pita. I used to carry an Alesis module and a single trigger for just that occasion. Nothing I'd ever do in the studio but live it can be tough to tell the difference! :D

You'd be surprised how many touring bands you've seen have at least something on the kit triggered. Although post 1991, it's hard to find a triggered snare.

The one's I've used look kind of like this



While I agree with you at certain level, I absolutely REFUSE to trigger a kickdrum if a drummer can't tune his kit. If I play live, I make sure the soundguy can work with what we're using on stage. That's the responsibility of the band, IMO, and if your sound is shitty because you have no clue, then that's your problem. A soundguy can only do so much; he amplifies what you give him. If a drummer wants to work with triggers, that's fine by me. If he can't tune, that's his problem.

[drebin]

...piezo....pronounced pee'-ay-zoh, not pie'-zoh...in Latin you pretty much pronounce every letter...

You sure about this?? I've heard and read MANY places that describe the pronunciation the first way. ??

[deadringer]

I don't like triggered drums generally, but a triggered kick can be an absolute life saver if you you're doing the sound for a band and the drum kit is a pita. I used to carry an Alesis module and a single trigger for just that occasion. Nothing I'd ever do in the studio but live it can be tough to tell the difference! :D

You'd be surprised how many touring bands you've seen have at least something on the kit triggered. Although post 1991, it's hard to find a triggered snare.

The one's I've used look kind of like this



While I agree with you at certain level, I absolutely REFUSE to trigger a kickdrum if a drummer can't tune his kit. If I play live, I make sure the soundguy can work with what we're using on stage. That's the responsibility of the band, IMO, and if your sound is shitty because you have no clue, then that's your problem. A soundguy can only do so much; he amplifies what you give him. If a drummer wants to work with triggers, that's fine by me. If he can't tune, that's his problem.

I agree that triggers shouldn't be used if avoided but you'd be amazed at what some drummers would consider "tuning"! :D

[Michael]

I don't like triggered drums generally, but a triggered kick can be an absolute life saver if you you're doing the sound for a band and the drum kit is a pita. I used to carry an Alesis module and a single trigger for just that occasion. Nothing I'd ever do in the studio but live it can be tough to tell the difference! :D

You'd be surprised how many touring bands you've seen have at least something on the kit triggered. Although post 1991, it's hard to find a triggered snare.

The one's I've used look kind of like this



While I agree with you at certain level, I absolutely REFUSE to trigger a kickdrum if a drummer can't tune his kit. If I play live, I make sure the soundguy can work with what we're using on stage. That's the responsibility of the band, IMO, and if your sound is shitty because you have no clue, then that's your problem. A soundguy can only do so much; he amplifies what you give him. If a drummer wants to work with triggers, that's fine by me. If he can't tune, that's his problem.

I agree that triggers shouldn't be used if avoided but you'd be amazed at what some drummers would consider "tuning"! :D

Yeah, I know. It's terrible. :D

[phraser]

I don't like triggered drums generally, but a triggered kick can be an absolute life saver if you you're doing the sound for a band and the drum kit is a pita. I used to carry an Alesis module and a single trigger for just that occasion. Nothing I'd ever do in the studio but live it can be tough to tell the difference! :D

You'd be surprised how many touring bands you've seen have at least something on the kit triggered. Although post 1991, it's hard to find a triggered snare.

The one's I've used look kind of like this



While I agree with you at certain level, I absolutely REFUSE to trigger a kickdrum if a drummer can't tune his kit. If I play live, I make sure the soundguy can work with what we're using on stage. That's the responsibility of the band, IMO, and if your sound is shitty because you have no clue, then that's your problem. A soundguy can only do so much; he amplifies what you give him. If a drummer wants to work with triggers, that's fine by me. If he can't tune, that's his problem.



While your right in some aspects IMO it totally depends on what music your playing and what other instruments you're playing with. Triggers live are used to make the drums sound bigger and fuller. Even if you tune a drum kit to hell you still get problems when your not working with a profesional setup which alot of the times is the case and triggers cut alot of slack for you.

When you're a cover band touring countries and a club hires you to do a 3 month contract you most likely will be using the gear already there and a trigger can make a lower standard drum kit sound fuller it's got nothing to do with tuning.

If your playing regular Top 40 Funk,R&b and shit why go through all the trouble with hauling your whole set up over when a little trigger will cut it. My point is you don't always have the time or luxury of having your kit sounding like ToTo and shortcuts like these save alot of trouble and sometimes your ass! :-D

[Michael]

While your right in some aspects IMO it totally depends on what music your playing and what other instruments you're playing with. Triggers live are used to make the drums sound bigger and fuller. Even if you tune a drum kit to hell you still get problems when your not working with a profesional setup which alot of the times is the case and triggers cut alot of slack for you.

When you're a cover band touring countries and a club hires you to do a 3 month contract you most likely will be using the gear already there and a trigger can make a lower standard drum kit sound fuller it's got nothing to do with tuning.

If your playing regular Top 40 Funk,R&b and shit why go through all the trouble with hauling your whole set up over when a little trigger will cut it. My point is you don't always have the time or luxury of having your kit sounding like ToTo and shortcuts like these save alot of trouble and sometimes your ass! :-D

Offcourse, if you play in a top40 band, triggering can be very usefull, but that doesn't change my opinion about them sounding like absolute crap. :D

A simple drumkit can sound great if you tune it well and use good drumheads. I've heard cheap Linko kits that sounded amazing just because the drummer knew what he was doing. Hitting the drumkit in the right way is also a big factor, obviously, but still I disagree on the statement that triggering a cheap drumkit makes it sound better. (That's offcourse not the statement you guys make, but you know what I mean. :D )

I've heard some reasonably good electronic kits, like the Roland V-drum stuff, though. I prefer a well tuned Yamaha kit, but for top40 stuff it was very usefull. It's an easy way to recreate different sounds, and if you have to play every night, it's a hell of a lot less work to set up., esspecialy if you don't have roadies.

My opinion stays the same though. Triggering to me sounds like crap. :twisted: :wink: :D

[GuitarGod1036]

...piezo....pronounced pee'-ay-zoh, not pie'-zoh...in Latin you pretty much pronounce every letter...

You sure about this?? I've heard and read MANY places that describe the pronunciation the first way. ??


Reverse that. (I get your point though, Drebin). :D

The greatest thing aboot Latin is that it is the easiest language to learn. The main reason is because of the simplicity in its pronunciation. There may be exceptions (off the top of my head I can't think of any), but as I remember Latin has pretty concrete rules of grammar, especially when it comes to the pronunciations of vowels and consonants. For example: :wink:

Vowels are pronounced like such and separately anunciated:

a = ah
e = ay
i = ee
o = oh
u = oo

A few examples, which are lost when Americans get a hold of them, are these:

V = Pronounced like a "W"....always.

So, "in vino veritas" (In wine there is truth), would actually be pronounced:
"en wee'-no wer'-eh-tas", not "in vee-no ver-i-tas".

C = Pronounced like a "K"....always.

So, "vini, vidi, vici" (I came, I saw, I conquered) would actually be pronounced:
"wee'-nee, wee'-dee, wee'-kee", not "vinny, viddy, veechee".

So, by knowing these few rules, a word like "vacuum", in Latin, would be pronounced:

"wah'-koo-oom"

Follow?

So, "piezo" would indeed be "pee'-ay-zoh". :D

[pauly]

It definitely isn't "Pee-Z-O" That is impossible to get from the spelling "piezo"

Pie-Zo would be possible if you Americanize it but definitely not Pee-Z-O

[Tommi Inkila]

You can trigger drums in many ways. The idea is to replace the original sound with a sample. For example on snare track the trigger inserts or plays the sound you wan't everytime the signal on the track is high enough. When you start to record you may already know that you're going to use triggered sounds so you can use easily placeable piezos... on the other hand you can mike the kit with "normal" mics and then later replace the sounds or few of them if necessary.

I think that triggering is very common in rock world. Little triggering is many times much more efficient and cheaper than playing a song over and over again. For example on latest Korn record they used triggers for drums to correct some mistakes. You can also trigger a snare or kick with many different samples. That way it sounds more natural.

What comes to triggering on DT albums... Images, YES... Awake, most likely... after that maybe some corrections there and there... IMO

And one thing, you shouldn't confuse triggering with quantizing... Quantizing makes the drums machine-like because then there won't be even a millisecond mistake on the beat. Trigger just replaces the hit that drummer made no matter how out of the tempo it was.