Recommend me some Jazz

[Grey]

I've been very interested in Jazz, I play it at school in the Band but not much at home and I wanted to know of some good Jazz (More Guitar Oriented) tunes. I'm especially interested in Frank Gambale, and somewhat Guthrie Govan. Maybe something from them? Also any songs with some pretty odd/difficult chords.

[Wolfgangshredder]

I can't help you much with the artists you mentioned, but you definately want to check out Chick Corea, especially his song Spain. It has really cool chord changes and theres even a vid of Guthrie playing over it on youtube. Hope that helps a little bit.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oE5yMTCbsC0

[Grey]

I can't help you much with the artists you mentioned, but you definately want to check out Chick Corea, especially his song Spain. It has really cool chord changes and theres even a vid of Guthrie playing over it on youtube. Hope that helps a little bit.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oE5yMTCbsC0

Haha yeah I've seen this video. Its awesome. I've actually heard of alot of jazz artists just not alot of individual songs.

[quebec]

I've added you on msn, so come online whenever you want, I'll be glad to share tunes/transcriptions I have, to the best of my knowledge.

[Mark2055]

I've been very interested in Jazz, I play it at school in the Band but not much at home and I wanted to know of some good Jazz (More Guitar Oriented) tunes. I'm especially interested in Frank Gambale, and somewhat Guthrie Govan. Maybe something from them? Also any songs with some pretty odd/difficult chords.
Pat Metheny is the man ... here's a couple of good vids off youtube:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NhxbBnbakho
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RnJsGQgS9ac

Pat Martino is also the man...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=z9NqDij4OGY
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1849HfBsTP8

you might dig this guy also, Ulf Wakenius
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tQmj6k8hX2M

and Andreas Oberg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xFFSS_YD3Hc

i filmed this last one, i hope you enjoy it....

-Mark

[King_Prawn]

I've added you on msn, so come online whenever you want, I'll be glad to share tunes/transcriptions I have, to the best of my knowledge.

Can I get some of that action?

[casaroli]

http://rapidshare.com/files/28813834/Batistella_Jazz_Trio.rar

try this, its a local jazz trio, here from my city...

very nice, a lot of free-jazz influence...

[Grey]

Pat Metheny is the man ... here's a couple of good vids off youtube:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NhxbBnbakho
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RnJsGQgS9ac


-Mark
Sadly I've heard alot of Metheny and I jsut cant seem to get into him. His stuff seems somewhat bland maybe boring... I like more up tempo and intense jazz when in a smaller band. But if there was a larger group with brass etc I like the guitar more rhythm like...

But that Pat Martino guy is great. His picking/fretting style is very unique.

That Ulf Wakenius is pretty cool too, I like the intense stuff. He looks like hes struggling while playing lol, all of em do actually.

And finally Andreas Oberg is decent but I wasnt particularly fond of the acoustic rhythm. But the solo was awesome.

Thanks :D

I mostly do want any sort of chord charts of songs. But thanks for those theyre all awesome.

[Distraughtite]

Pat Metheny - Bright Size Life....= :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

[DennisC]

And finally Andreas Oberg is decent but I wasnt particularly fond of the acoustic rhythm. But the solo was awesome.


thanks, that was me on rhythm guitar... at any rate i had my workout that night

[derrick-shredman]

listen to joe pass, brilliant jazz guitarist..check out his best of joe pass cd

[Madsman]

thanks, that was me on rhythm guitar... at any rate i had my workout that night

LOL! I thought it was hip. Hard to get real fidelity in recording via a camera mic.

Is Andreas as good as he seems to be? That guy sounds unstoppable. Every bebop line in the book!

[DennisC]

ya andreas was born to play music... during the tour he was staying at my place, he 'd improvise entire songs on the spot...

the giant steps we did was a request, he hadn't played that song in so many years.. yet he improvised an awesome intro on the spot...

we also recorded some heavy metal jazz with him playing on a solid body electric with full on distortion and allan holdsworth licks, but i dont think he'd want me to post those videos... people would just criticize him for being tasteless :-P

[jpfan2007]

Al Di Meola

[Madsman]

DiMeola is great, but much like Guthrie, he != Jazz.

[jpfan2007]

DiMeola is great, but much like Guthrie, he != Jazz.


He what?

[Madsman]

!= means "not equal."
DiMeola is not a jazz guitarist. He has more in common with Yngwie than with Martino.

[jpfan2007]

Actually he is more Jazz than he is anything else. Friday Night in San Francisco is considered to be on e of the best JAZZ album ever to be recorded. Any time I look for a cd by Di Meola he is catergorized under JAZZ. He may not sound like the first thing that comes to people's minds when they think of Jazz music, but trust me, he is considered a Jazz player.


I hear no relationship to Yngwie when I hear Di Meola play. Two completely different types of players, and two completely different types of music.

[Madsman]

No, Friday Night is NOT considered to be one of the best jazz albums ever recorded. That would be something like Wes Montgomery's Impressions, Miles' Kind of Blue, Trane's Giant Steps, Charlie Parker's In a Soulful Mood, the Trio Live at Massey Hall, etc.

I've seen Yanni in the classical section too. Does that make him classical?

I enjoy Al DiMeola's playing. But he doesn't play jazz. He plays modal vamps and composed material. He does it well. But then, what does Yngwie do? Modal vamps and composed melodies/solos.

[BennyBanana]

thanks, that was me on rhythm guitar... at any rate i had my workout that night

Hehe, that's to funny. :D

Anyway: If you're just starting to get in to jazz, go back to the beginning and check out Charlie Parker, Wes Montgomery, Dizzie Gillespie and those guys.

And no, Di Meola is not jazz. :)

EDIT: Just read that you wanted more guitar oriented stuff. Pat Martino, Pat Metheny's "Bright Size Life", Joe Pass, and the before mentioned Andreas Öberg. That should get you started pretty nicely.

[jpfan2007]

No, Friday Night is NOT considered to be one of the best jazz albums ever recorded. That would be something like Wes Montgomery's Impressions, Miles' Kind of Blue, Trane's Giant Steps, Charlie Parker's In a Soulful Mood, the Trio Live at Massey Hall, etc.

I've seen Yanni in the classical section too. Does that make him classical?

I enjoy Al DiMeola's playing. But he doesn't play jazz. He plays modal vamps and composed material. He does it well. But then, what does Yngwie do? Modal vamps and composed melodies/solos.

Meant one of the best live albums. Sorry, I didn't clarify. So, he plays modal vamps/composed solos. That pretty much the ony relationship between Di Meola and Yngwie. The styles of music are pretty much night and day.

[Callan]

Meant one of the best live albums. Sorry, I didn't clarify. So, he plays modal vamps/composed solos. That pretty much the ony relationship between Di Meola and Yngwie. The styles of music are pretty much night and day.

Jazz is basically all about playing simple-ish tunes (usually :) ) and improving over them. Explain when Di Meola does that. I think you're confusing influence and style.

NB: Improv does not include him playing his fave 3nps patterns.

[mike wazowski]

So, he plays modal vamps/composed solos.
Jazz is improvisation. Not asthetics.
That said, he can improvise.

[jpfan2007]

Jazz is improvisation. Not asthetics.
That said, he can improvise.

That comment actually wasn't orginally mine. I was just using it in a sarcastic comment to prove a point that Di Meola's and Yngwie's styles are completely different. I know Di Meola can improv, and I know he is considered to be one of the best Jazz Fusion players in the world. The comment I was replying to was a comment stating that Di Meola is not a Jazz player, which I find to be totally false. I did some research on Di Meola yesterday, and he is always described as a jazz fusion pioneer, and his style his always described as jazz with latin influence.

[pavan]

Looks like Bright Size life is popular around these parts. It has some really haunting tracks, especially Bright Size Life, Unquity Road, Midwesterner's Nights Dream

[Madsman]

Meant one of the best live albums. Sorry, I didn't clarify. So, he plays modal vamps/composed solos. That pretty much the ony relationship between Di Meola and Yngwie. The styles of music are pretty much night and day.

Well, there's your next problem. Most of the classic jazz albums out there ARE "live albums." ALL DiMeola does is play vamps and composed solos. Therefore, the only DIFFERENCES between Yngwie and DiMeola are guitar tones and the dragon headcount. DiMeola and Uli Jon Roth were Yngwie's 2 biggest influences (as he stated in his Spotlight article, before he became famous and tried to distance himself from anything but Hendrix and Bach.)

Listen, all I can do is point out the situation here, from the perspective of someone who has played a lot of Yngwie and a lot of DiMeola, and has studied jazz. I'm certainly not a master of any of it. But I can say, for certain, that DiMeola is NOT jazz, and that he's not improvising much... that when he does, he's still drawing from the same pool of 3 note per string licks. If you chart some of his pieces and then chart some real jazz, you will see the difference. If you chart some Yngwie or early MacAlpine etc, and some early DiMeola, you'll see HUGE similarities in thematic material and in content. There is NOTHING WRONG with that. It's not a put down. But the fact that DiMeola is found in the Jazz section does not mean he's a jazz musician. Out of curiosity, if you wanted to find a Kenny G album, what section would you find that disc in?

[Wischi]

Anyway: If you're just starting to get in to jazz, go back to the beginning and check out Charlie Parker, Wes Montgomery, Dizzie Gillespie and those guys.



They´re hardly the beginning, they´re more like the culmination.

I´d recommend going back even further to Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Benny Goodman or even Django Reinhardt.

[Madsman]

Hitting the early stuff will help a lot with developing a foundation for standards, since that era produced much of the repetoire everyone leans on. But I think Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Cannonball, etc give you a better idea of what has become benchmark playing.

[Rickh]

They´re hardly the beginning, they´re more like the culmination.

I´d recommend going back even further to Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Benny Goodman or even Django Reinhardt.

Beat me to it. I'll throw Charlie Christian in too :)

[jpfan2007]

Well, there's your next problem. Most of the classic jazz albums out there ARE "live albums." ALL DiMeola does is play vamps and composed solos. Therefore, the only DIFFERENCES between Yngwie and DiMeola are guitar tones and the dragon headcount. DiMeola and Uli Jon Roth were Yngwie's 2 biggest influences (as he stated in his Spotlight article, before he became famous and tried to distance himself from anything but Hendrix and Bach.)

Listen, all I can do is point out the situation here, from the perspective of someone who has played a lot of Yngwie and a lot of DiMeola, and has studied jazz. I'm certainly not a master of any of it. But I can say, for certain, that DiMeola is NOT jazz, and that he's not improvising much... that when he does, he's still drawing from the same pool of 3 note per string licks. If you chart some of his pieces and then chart some real jazz, you will see the difference. If you chart some Yngwie or early MacAlpine etc, and some early DiMeola, you'll see HUGE similarities in thematic material and in content. There is NOTHING WRONG with that. It's not a put down. But the fact that DiMeola is found in the Jazz section does not mean he's a jazz musician. Out of curiosity, if you wanted to find a Kenny G album, what section would you find that disc in?

I'm not saying any of what you said is a put down to Di Meola in anyway. All I'm saying is, I don't agree. And, so what if both Yngwie and Di Meola both play 3 nps patterns, and are incredibly fast, and technical players. Doesn't mean they sound a like or play the same types of music. Petrucci and Zakk Wylde also mention Di Meola as an influence. Yet, they both have taken what they learned and applied it in their own way, just like Yngwie.

REAL Jazz? So, there can't be different types of Jazz outside of Miles, Parker, Charlie Christian, and others. So I guess you don't consider Chick Corea a jazz artist either. Or Mclaughlin. Just because Di Meola's style doesn't fit under the same style as Miles and others doesn't make him not jazz.

And I've never gone looking for a Kenny G album, so I wouldn't know.

[BennyBanana]

They´re hardly the beginning, they´re more like the culmination.

I´d recommend going back even further to Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Benny Goodman or even Django Reinhardt.

Ok, wrong word. The "earlier stuff". That's what I meant, but it came out differently.

[Madsman]

No need to get pedantic. Putting words in my mouth isn't going to change either side of a discussion.

Are you familiar with Chick Corea or John McLaughlin, outside of their work with DiMeola? Because I would think that if so, you'd recognize enormous differences between the way these guys write and play vs the way that DiMeola writes and plays. The only thing seperating DiMeola from being a rock guitarist most of the time is the guitar tone and the accompaniment. This is not the case with McLaughlin or with Corea. This is getting counter-productive. Anyone that listens to DiMeola and thinks it's "jazz"... more power to you. I do not believe that such an opinion will last beyond even a cursory exploration of actual jazz... I don't think you can listen to jazz and then listen to DiMeola and think they're really related.

BTW, Paco is found in the jazz section too, and he's clearly contemporary Flamenco.

[Callan]

I'm not saying any of what you said is a put down to Di Meola in anyway. All I'm saying is, I don't agree. And, so what if both Yngwie and Di Meola both play 3 nps patterns, and are incredibly fast, and technical players. Doesn't mean they sound a like or play the same types of music. Petrucci and Zakk Wylde also mention Di Meola as an influence. Yet, they both have taken what they learned and applied it in their own way, just like Yngwie.

REAL Jazz? So, there can't be different types of Jazz outside of Miles, Parker, Charlie Christian, and others. So I guess you don't consider Chick Corea a jazz artist either. Or Mclaughlin. Just because Di Meola's style doesn't fit under the same style as Miles and others doesn't make him not jazz.

And I've never gone looking for a Kenny G album, so I wouldn't know.

Honestly you're fighting a losing battle, Di meola doesn't/hardly ever improvises. How can you justify that he is 'real jazz'?

BTW i think there is a reason Di Meola influenced a lot of rock/ metal players :)

EDIT: Also, for guitar orientated jazz which hasn't been mentioned yet listen to some of the jazz George Benson has done (and the pop stuff if you want). Its not overly complex and is pretty easy to get into.

[Don Fenucci]

Check out Stanley Jordan, Acoustic Alchemy, and The Rippingtons. More modern day smooth jazz stuff...not the "real jazz" but still excellent music.

[Sam Moore]

Don't listen to jazz guitarists; they mostly suck (except for Jim Hall and Pat Metheny). You need to listen to horn players, man, that's where it's at. Coltrane, Parker, Adderley, Rollins, Gordon etc

Some essential jazz abums:

John Coltrane - Giant Steps; A Love Supreme; Live at the Village Vanguard
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue, Miles Ahead,
Cannonball Adderley - Something Else
Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Colossus
Dexter Gordon - Go!; Our Man in Paris
Joe Henderson - Page One; Inside Out
Charlie Parker - Complete Dial
Oliver Nelson - The Blues and the Abstract Truth
Michael Brecker - Don't Try This at Home
Pat Metheny - Question and Answer; Bright Size Life; Trio 99/00
Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage
Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um
Bill Evans - Waltz for Debby
Thelonius Monk - Brilliant Corners
Eric Dolphy - Out to Lunch

The list goes on; I could easily mention dozens more, but those are just a few brilliant albums which should be in any jazz fan's collection.

[reefs_of_space]

REAL Jazz? So, there can't be different types of Jazz outside of Miles, Parker, Charlie Christian, and others. So I guess you don't consider Chick Corea a jazz artist either.

Speaking of chick corea, check out his 'acoustic jazz.' Like Straight up and Down or Now he Sings, Now he Sobs...

I prefer it to his electric stuff.

[realityflaw]

Don't listen to jazz guitarists; they mostly suck (except for Jim Hall and Pat Metheny). You need to listen to horn players, man, that's where it's at. Coltrane, Parker, Adderley, Rollins, Gordon etc

Some essential jazz abums:

John Coltrane - Giant Steps; A Love Supreme; Live at the Village Vanguard
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue, Miles Ahead,
Cannonball Adderley - Something Else
Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Colossus
Dexter Gordon - Go!; Our Man in Paris
Joe Henderson - Page One; Inside Out
Charlie Parker - Complete Dial
Oliver Nelson - The Blues and the Abstract Truth
Michael Brecker - Don't Try This at Home
Pat Metheny - Question and Answer; Bright Size Life; Trio 99/00
Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage
Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um
Bill Evans - Waltz for Debby
Thelonius Monk - Brilliant Corners
Eric Dolphy - Out to Lunch

The list goes on; I could easily mention dozens more, but those are just a few brilliant albums which should be in any jazz fan's collection.

You nailed it right on the head Sam! I was going to suggest Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um and anything by Miles Davis or Coltrane.

[Xaem]

A lot of what DiMeola does is what I'd consider jazz, and a lot of it isn't, it varies from album to album and project to project. His stuff with Rite of Strings I would say is jazz, for instance, whereas I would not say the Elegant Gypsy is jazz.

Also, he's not a "CLEARLY" different player than a lot of the jazz players mentioned, at least in my opinion. You can put just about as much DiMeola on a lead sheet as you can McLaughlin and Chick.

And MOST importantly, I think what he and Yngwie do are very different.

[Mark2055]

A lot of what DiMeola does is what I'd consider jazz, and a lot of it isn't, it varies from album to album and project to project. His stuff with Rite of Strings I would say is jazz, for instance, whereas I would not say the Elegant Gypsy is jazz.

Also, he's not a "CLEARLY" different player than a lot of the jazz players mentioned, at least in my opinion. You can put just about as much DiMeola on a lead sheet as you can McLaughlin and Chick.

And MOST importantly, I think what he and Yngwie do are very different.

Jazz swings. That's what defines it. And there are is no swing on those albums, sorry ...
also, we're arguing about labels, and there's not much point in this. The important thing is we all understand that what AlDiMeola does whatever you want to call it, doesn't have much to with what Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, Coltrane, Miles or any of the "jazz pioneers" did.
-Mark

[Callan]

Jazz swings. That's what defines it. And there are is no swing on those albums, sorry ...
also, we're arguing about labels, and there's not much point in this. The important thing is we all understand that what AlDiMeola does whatever you want to call it, doesn't have much to with what Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, Coltrane, Miles or any of the "jazz pioneers" did.
-Mark

I wouldn't say swingin' is the defining factor, for instance some rock songs swing but they are not jazz. However, i do agree the albums mentioned are not jazz.

[mike wazowski]

Jazz swings. That's what defines it.
Wait...what?

[-=Melodic Dreamer=-]

Andreas Oberg.

[quebec]

Jazz must swing, jazz must have improvisations, jazz must...?

Not in my book, my definition of jazz is MUCH more open. Nikolai Kapustin for example is a jazz/classical COMPOSER, everything is written down. Jazz evolved, influenced a lot of other music genres. Not every type of music has to be classified perfectly, sheesh. You guys sound like critics trying to categorize everything.

As for Al Di Meola, you can't deny the presence of jazz in his music.

[reefs_of_space]

Someone can be influenced by jazz, borrow some of the language and harmonies, and still not be playing jazz. Vinnie Moore and Tony Mcalpine and Tom Hess all borrow heavily from Baroque and Classical composers but no one would argue that they are playing those styles of music.

Al Di Meola and Yngwie do play a lot of similar things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClbE6YEO6e0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj3ec2cCaJw

They have more in common with each other than do, say Yngwie and Barney Kessel or Di Meola and Scott Henderson.

Reefs

[jpfan2007]

Someone can be influenced by jazz, borrow some of the language and harmonies, and still not be playing jazz. Vinnie Moore and Tony Mcalpine and Tom Hess all borrow heavily from Baroque and Classical composers but no one would argue that they are playing those styles of music.

Al Di Meola and Yngwie do play a lot of similar things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClbE6YEO6e0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj3ec2cCaJw

They have more in common with each other than do, say Yngwie and Barney Kessel or Di Meola and Scott Henderson.

Reefs

Al Di Meola is just not simply "borrowing" from Jazz. That's what he plays. That's where his roots are. I've never heard Di Meola be associated with any type of music besides Jazz, Fusion, and Latin music before now. And so what if Yngwie and Di Meola play similiar patterns. But are you seriously going to put Di Meola and Yngwie in the same ballpark because they both play 3 nps patterns? Ridiculous.

[mr_freeze338]

What does it matter if Meola is "true" jazz or not? Get back on topic, and post some recommendations.

I'd throw in alot of fusion too if you want to get into jazz. My recommendations:

Mongol - Doppler 444
Allan Holdsworth - Sixteen Men of Tain (I know he's mentioned often, just listen to this)
John Patitucci - Now
Joshua Redman Elastic Band - Momentum (cool cover of The Crunge on it)
Lost Tribe - Many Lifetimes (great fusion)
Mats & Morgan (some would say more prog rock than fusion.. I don't care, it rocks)

[reefs_of_space]

Al Di Meola is just not simply "borrowing" from Jazz. That's what he plays. That's where his roots are. I've never heard Di Meola be associated with any type of music besides Jazz, Fusion, and Latin music before now. And so what if Yngwie and Di Meola play similiar patterns. But are you seriously going to put Di Meola and Yngwie in the same ballpark because they both play 3 nps patterns? Ridiculous.

Not because they play 3 note per string patterns. Because they play similar rhythmically and harmonically. They both use the note "A" for example. No one in Jazz ever plays an "A" note, they play an Ab (because, for historical reasons, trumpets and saxophones can't play an "A" note).

Seriously, as someone else mentioned, Di Meola and Yngwie when soloing or doing instrumentals have more in common with each other than they do with Scott Henderson or Barney Kessel, or Wes Montgomery or John Abercrombie. It's the sort of chord progressions they play over, what sort of scales they use, and their overall approach to playing solos or improvising over modal vamps.

[AFM]

Jazz must swing, jazz must have improvisations, jazz must...?

Not in my book, my definition of jazz is MUCH more open. Nikolai Kapustin for example is a jazz/classical COMPOSER, everything is written down. Jazz evolved, influenced a lot of other music genres. Not every type of music has to be classified perfectly, sheesh. You guys sound like critics trying to categorize everything.

As for Al Di Meola, you can't deny the presence of jazz in his music.

Kapustin :notworthy

[reefs_of_space]

What does it matter if Meola is "true" jazz or not? Get back on topic, and post some recommendations.


Good point :)

Thelonious Monk w/ John Coltrane at Carnegie Hall
Tal Farlow The Return of Tal Farlow (and all his earlier stuff)
Allan Holdsworth All Night Wrong
The Joe Pass Trio Live at Dante's
Joe Pass the Virtuoso Series
Gateway Homecoming